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On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Matt Hamilton <matth@...> wrote: > > On 11 Mar 2009, at 20:53, Nate Aune wrote: > >>> 1) We are putting in a deliverence-based theme in front of a legacy >>> portal system (.NET). We will be slowly replacing chunks of it with other >>> best-of breed OSS systems, incl. Plone, Confluence, Moodle, etc. What is so >>> great with this is that we are playing in a big corporate environment with >>> existing systems (.NET), but also showing a much more flexible approach and >>> delivering a much better solution to the client, whilst not having to throw >>> everything away. >> >> Matt - it would be great to see a case study of how you delivered this >> hybrid solution using Deliverance. I see a lot of large organizations >> struggling with how to integrate these various systems with a consistent >> branding and reusable theme, and this is definitely Deliverance's sweet >> spot. >> >> I think more promotion of Deliverance (once the technical decisions have >> been fleshed out) as a solution to integrating disparate systems would help >> us reach new markets where this is a common problem. > > Well the big issue we've hit here is that we can't actually do everything we > want to do by using deliverance. This is not really the fault of > deliverance, as its intended to solve simple use cases, but it will be > interesting to see over time how others get on with deliverance and at what > point they have to get into Plone itself anyways. > > We actually have a XSLT transform pipeline stage in our WSGI stack (which > uses the code from xdv) to do some of the more complex stuff we need to do. > > I will write it up once the project has got to a point where we can publicly > show it off. Any progress on this? I'm giving a talk about using Deliverance as a theming solution at the European Plone Symposium next week and again at the Plone Symposium East at the end of this month. I would like to include a few examples / case studies, and it sounds like the solution you came up with for the "big corporate environment" would be very interesting for others to hear about. I've been experimenting with the latest Deliverance 0.3 which uses CSS selectors but can also use XPath expressions, and finding it to be quite flexible. The debugging console is also really slick too. You rock Ian! As it stands right now, there appears to be three ways to run Deliverance with Plone: 1) Deliverance 0.3 as a proxy (this is how plone.org is doing it) http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/new.plone.org/branches/deliverance0.3/ 2) Deliverance 0.3 as WSGI middleware together with repoze.plone. Calvin explains how to do this in a recent blog post: http://www.sixfeetup.com/blog/2009/4/27/deploying-plone-and-zine-together-with-deliverance-using-repoze 3) Martin's collective.xdv which uses a post-publication hook made available through the plone.postpublicationhook package to modify the request as it is is sent to the browser. http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.xdv/ Note that xdv doesn't support CSS selectors, only XPath expressions, and doesn't have all the cool features (such as the debugging console) that is included with Deliverance 0.3. But Martin has come up with an interesting proof-of-concept for a tightly integrated theming solution using xdv, complete with a configlet in the Plone control panel for specifying the theme and rules files. Nate -- Nate Aune - natea@... Sign up for Plone Developer training on the Amalfi Coast of Italy (5/11-12). http://plonedev-natesig.eventbrite.com
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> 3) Martin's collective.xdv which uses a post-publication hook made > available through the > plone.postpublicationhook package to modify the request as it is is > sent to the browser. > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.xdv/ > > Note that xdv doesn't support CSS selectors, only XPath expressions, > and doesn't have all the cool features (such as the debugging console) > that is included with Deliverance 0.3. But Martin has come up with an > interesting proof-of-concept for a tightly integrated theming solution > using xdv, complete with a configlet in the Plone control panel for > specifying the theme and rules files. This is missing the point, I'm afraid. The whole point of xdv is that you can compile the theme + rules down to a single XSLT file and deploy that in Apache or nginx. This is what plone.org does, for example, and it's set up with the buildout here: http://www.martinaspeli.net/articles/uber-buildout collective.xdv is a bit of a hack to make this work on Windows, where I couldn't find a suitable way to deploy an XSLT filter that uses an HTML mode parser. You're right that it is also a proof of concept of integrating this more tightly with Plone, using a control panel. However, that was a by-product and basically the path of least resistance to make this work for a project. Personally, I'm a bit worried about the amount of "stuff" in Deliverance 0.3, although it is impressive. I think the XSLT-deploy use case is important, and xdv is simple enough to be relatively uncomplicated. That said, I think there's probably room for both Deliverance (0.3) and xdv in our world. Martin
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On 4 May 2009, at 14:48, Nate Aune wrote: >> >> We actually have a XSLT transform pipeline stage in our WSGI stack >> (which >> uses the code from xdv) to do some of the more complex stuff we >> need to do. >> >> I will write it up once the project has got to a point where we can >> publicly >> show it off. > > Any progress on this? I'm giving a talk about using Deliverance as a > theming solution at the European Plone Symposium next week and again > at the Plone Symposium East at the end of this month. I will be presenting where we are at in Sorrento next week :) Look for a talk entitled 'Lipstick on a pig'. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth@... Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting
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interesting note that ian bicking was coy talking about deliverance at pycon. anyone know the future of deliverance? Alan Runyan Enfold Systems On May 4, 2009, at 8:48 AM, "Nate Aune" <natea@...> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Matt Hamilton > <matth@...> wrote: >> >> On 11 Mar 2009, at 20:53, Nate Aune wrote: >> >>>> 1) We are putting in a deliverence-based theme in front of a legacy >>>> portal system (.NET). We will be slowly replacing chunks of it >>>> with other >>>> best-of breed OSS systems, incl. Plone, Confluence, Moodle, etc. >>>> What is so >>>> great with this is that we are playing in a big corporate >>>> environment with >>>> existing systems (.NET), but also showing a much more flexible >>>> approach and >>>> delivering a much better solution to the client, whilst not >>>> having to throw >>>> everything away. >>> >>> Matt - it would be great to see a case study of how you delivered >>> this >>> hybrid solution using Deliverance. I see a lot of large >>> organizations >>> struggling with how to integrate these various systems with a >>> consistent >>> branding and reusable theme, and this is definitely Deliverance's >>> sweet >>> spot. >>> >>> I think more promotion of Deliverance (once the technical >>> decisions have >>> been fleshed out) as a solution to integrating disparate systems >>> would help >>> us reach new markets where this is a common problem. >> >> Well the big issue we've hit here is that we can't actually do >> everything we >> want to do by using deliverance. This is not really the fault of >> deliverance, as its intended to solve simple use cases, but it will >> be >> interesting to see over time how others get on with deliverance and >> at what >> point they have to get into Plone itself anyways. >> >> We actually have a XSLT transform pipeline stage in our WSGI stack >> (which >> uses the code from xdv) to do some of the more complex stuff we >> need to do. >> >> I will write it up once the project has got to a point where we can >> publicly >> show it off. > > Any progress on this? I'm giving a talk about using Deliverance as a > theming solution at the European Plone Symposium next week and again > at the Plone Symposium East at the end of this month. > > I would like to include a few examples / case studies, and it sounds > like the solution you came up with for the "big corporate environment" > would be very interesting for others to hear about. > > I've been experimenting with the latest Deliverance 0.3 which uses CSS > selectors but can also use XPath expressions, and finding it to be > quite flexible. The debugging console is also really slick too. You > rock Ian! > > As it stands right now, there appears to be three ways to run > Deliverance with Plone: > 1) Deliverance 0.3 as a proxy (this is how plone.org is doing it) > http://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/new.plone.org/branches/deliverance0.3/ > > 2) Deliverance 0.3 as WSGI middleware together with repoze.plone. > Calvin explains how to do this in a recent blog post: > http://www.sixfeetup.com/blog/2009/4/27/deploying-plone-and-zine-together-with-deliverance-using-repoze > > 3) Martin's collective.xdv which uses a post-publication hook made > available through the > plone.postpublicationhook package to modify the request as it is is > sent to the browser. > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.xdv/ > > Note that xdv doesn't support CSS selectors, only XPath expressions, > and doesn't have all the cool features (such as the debugging console) > that is included with Deliverance 0.3. But Martin has come up with an > interesting proof-of-concept for a tightly integrated theming solution > using xdv, complete with a configlet in the Plone control panel for > specifying the theme and rules files. > > Nate > > -- > Nate Aune - natea@... > Sign up for Plone Developer training on the Amalfi Coast of Italy > (5/11-12). > http://plonedev-natesig.eventbrite.com