Jan 27th 2009



(15:04:53) El tema de #plone-evangelism es: WPD MEETING TOPICS: http://paste.plone.org/26057

(17:59:55) HammerToe: WPD chat about now? Or have I got the timezones wrong?
(18:01:48) r0ver: HammerToe: hello
(18:01:52) r0ver: HammerToe: yes, it is now
(18:02:02) r0ver: i was waiting for more people
(18:02:09) r0ver: let's announce at #plone
(18:03:35) HammerToe: hi francesco :)
(18:04:20) r0ver: francescociriaci!
(18:04:33) r0ver: We can wait for a couple of minutes
(18:04:36) francescociriaci: Hi folks
(18:04:40) francescociriaci: sure
(18:04:44) r0ver: in the meantime the topics for the meeting are here: http://paste.plone.org/26057
(18:04:53) r0ver: feel free to include or edit it
(18:05:25) francescociriaci: r0ver: ok
(18:05:41) francescociriaci: r0ver: I mean I'm ok with the topics :)
(18:06:18) r0ver: ree!
(18:06:22) francescociriaci: hi ree
(18:06:22) ree: hi all!
(18:08:19) r0ver: ok. One minute and we begin
(18:08:34) ree: r0ver, at some point (when you find appropriate) I would ask support for an action that is not directly connected with WPD but with plone evangelism in general
(18:09:49) r0ver: ree: good
(18:09:56) r0ver: ree: natea is here
(18:10:00) r0ver: we can add it to the agenda
(18:10:39) r0ver: Any other topic to be added in the agenda?
(18:11:26) r0ver: Ok. Then we move forward.
(18:11:37) r0ver: First of all. Thank you very much for comming.
(18:12:03) r0ver: It is very important if we're able to consolidate WPD as an annual event
(18:12:20) r0ver: and to do that i believe is important to have a group of people interested on working
(18:12:26) r0ver: in the global team
(18:12:54) r0ver: i strongly believe that WPD initiative shouldn't be tied to one person and it would be awesome if we can change
(18:13:01) r0ver: the global champion every year
(18:13:06) r0ver: so...
(18:13:18) r0ver: first topic: - WPD 2008 post morten
(18:13:54) r0ver: If i'm not wrong Karl wrote a good draft for a postmorten: http://plonemetrics.blogspot.com/2008/11/world-plone-day-after-action-report.html
(18:13:59) r0ver: have you chance to read it ?
(18:14:47) HammerToe: yes
(18:15:57) r0ver: any comments about it ?, do you believe is a good postmorten ?
(18:16:14) r0ver: do you want to comment anything for the record ?
(18:16:24) r0ver: feedback ?, problems, suggestions ?
(18:16:31) r0ver: the google spreadsheet was great
(18:17:04) r0ver: we've many information there and it would be nice to analyse more in deatil before moving foward but since
(18:17:05) HammerToe: Its a very good summary, as in a summary for PR purposes... I was hoping this chat might give a bit more insight and detail if people wanted to share
(18:18:03) r0ver: the spreadsheet is here:
(18:18:04) r0ver: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=py-ZRibpWMZXMgI9P-XXweg&hl=en
(18:18:10) r0ver: and it is a great source of information too
(18:18:58) HammerToe: yeah am just looking at it now
(18:19:23) r0ver: there were 1250 attendes aprox, the media was about 20
(18:19:55) r0ver: hugh host had 120 (Brasilia)
(18:20:04) r0ver: and others had just 5
(18:20:08) r0ver: wich is not a bad number
(18:20:43) r0ver: from the global team we didn't want to tell how to do it, but give some hints that could work
(18:21:01) r0ver: I'm not sure if it has sense to discuss startegies to promote WPD at local level
(18:21:21) r0ver: or even the nature of the event
(18:21:44) r0ver: although i believe there's consensus that something like WPD is a good thing or way to promote plone.
(18:21:52) r0ver: any comment ?
(18:22:46) HammerToe: I think it is a good thing... and I think you are right not to prescribe a format at a global level, as it seems local events were tailored to their environment
(18:23:30) HammerToe: ours personally was too disorganised as done at the last minute, and the lightning talk format didn't work too well as we had limited time and I think we went too fast for people
(18:24:08) HammerToe: so hence I am looking at the spreadsheet now to see how other events were run to get ideas for a better format for ours this year
(18:24:46) r0ver: HammerToe: wich is yours london or bristol ?
(18:24:58) HammerToe: Bristol
(18:25:43) HammerToe: which was another issue I think.... two fairly close to each other... or rather the London one billed as 'lets get all plone developers together to meet each other'
(18:26:00) HammerToe: whereas the Bristol one was aimed more at outside the existing community
(18:26:32) HammerToe: so by not being able to attend the London one (as we were running the Bristol one) it ended up being all the UK development companies except the Bristol ones lol
(18:26:51) HammerToe: (and Bristol has a very large Plone contingent)
(18:27:27) r0ver: did you (any of UK hosts) focus on a particular auddience ?
(18:28:04) HammerToe: not really, apart from the London one being aimed at existing Plone developers/users
(18:28:53) HammerToe: the Bristol one was held at the university and I did a lot of promotion to the university.... only to find out on the day that two other lectures were scheduled during the 1-hour WPD slot we organised :(
(18:29:34) HammerToe: (lectures during lunchtime?! and on a friday?!)
(18:30:08) r0ver: buh
(18:30:26) HammerToe: so we will be much better prepared... have more time... etc this year
(18:30:55) r0ver: good to hear that
(18:30:56) HammerToe: question is do we run it at the university again and pitch to students mainly.... or do we do something more similar to Enfold and pitch to companies
(18:31:14) r0ver: that's a good question
(18:31:26) r0ver: does anyone else want to share its experiences?
(18:31:55) HammerToe: Enfold's Agenda seemed really nice: http://www.enfoldsystems.com/events/wpd_2008/WPD-2008_Agenda
(18:32:26) HammerToe: ie intro, then presentations by (I presume) clients
(18:33:02) HammerToe: but their feedback said most of their attendees knew about plone already
(18:33:19) francescociriaci: same in Pisa
(18:33:36) francescociriaci: most of the attendees were not new to plone
(18:34:19) HammerToe: right... so I guess the question is what is the focus? If we want to be evangalising plone then maybe we need to be pushing to people who don't already know about Plone more
(18:36:09) HammerToe: francescociriaci, how did you promote the event? were you targetting a particular sector?
(18:36:19) r0ver: HammerToe: that's a good point
(18:38:38) HammerToe: I just did a search on slideshare.net for worldploneday2008 to find reflabs slides... couldn't see them, then noticed I was just searching 'english'... switch to 'all languages' and there are loads of presentations there
(18:38:53) r0ver: HammerToe: url ?
(18:39:37) HammerToe: http://www.slideshare.net/search/slideshow?lang=**&submit=post&q=worldploneday2008&commit=search
(18:39:51) HammerToe: 20 presentations there
(18:40:05) r0ver: something we are doing, in a regular basis, is to look for organizations interested to learn about plone
(18:40:10) HammerToe: whilst I can't understand all the languages, I can get the understanding of a lot of them, lots of good ideas there
(18:40:24) HammerToe: r0ver, how are you looking for them?
(18:40:36) r0ver: for wpd 2008 we found an university, a national government agency and a free software event
(18:40:45) r0ver: in fact we found 2 universities
(18:40:58) HammerToe: I will be speaking at an event on Open Source in local government on Apr 1st... so will be pimping WPD there
(18:41:21) r0ver: so, we go there and give a short talk (an hour) two maximun very focused on their problems
(18:41:27) r0ver: how do we meet them...
(18:41:35) HammerToe: r0ver, what are you doing? Just calling up a list of organisations and asking 'you want to find out about Plone?'
(18:41:36) r0ver: mm.. social networking :)
(18:41:53) r0ver: HammerToe: more or less... but we try to meet them first
(18:42:02) francescociriaci: we did promote the event with the help of the "tech park we're in
(18:42:16) r0ver: i mean, i don't call them anyone without making a first contact
(18:42:57) r0ver: so... following this approach, they care for attendees, place, infraestructure
(18:43:14) r0ver: we care for the content and invited other people who may be interested or work on similar entities/sector
(18:43:43) HammerToe: we exhibited at a big expo in London in december... we have a stack of business cards from people we talked to. I think sending WPD invites to all of them would be a good plan for us
(18:43:48) r0ver: so...i think the approach is not to target people not to come to your place, but you go to them
(18:44:05) r0ver: that's important
(18:44:25) HammerToe: r0ver, sorry... just to clarify... you go to their place when? For WPD or before?
(18:45:07) r0ver: Our WPD activities are not in our company. We organize the activities in their offices
(18:45:36) r0ver: we usually ask them if they're interested to organize a talk or a mini-user course for free
(18:45:50) r0ver: we just ask them a room to give the presentation
(18:46:02) r0ver: and if it is possible to inivite people besides their organization
(18:46:13) r0ver: in government that usually works
(18:46:19) HammerToe: so you went to the planning ministry and the university on the same day?
(18:46:22) r0ver: in a corporate level, that works with chambers
(18:46:26) r0ver: yes
(18:46:44) HammerToe: nice idea
(18:46:45) francescociriaci: chambers might be a good choice, yes
(18:46:47) r0ver: actually we traveled many kilometers because they were not on the same city
(18:47:36) r0ver: for example, if you organize the event in a chamber, they've an excuse to do a meeting (chambers usually need that :) ) they provide you the infrastructure or even catering if you are lucky and you minimize the effort
(18:48:05) HammerToe: a very good idea
(18:48:11) r0ver: so, for wpd 2009 we're looking for another gov organization, probably in another city, another university and so on
(18:48:14) francescociriaci: r0ver: we'll try that, cool idea
(18:48:41) r0ver: we try to involve them on the event organization, and inviting people wich is one of the most harder part
(18:48:56) r0ver: so, for example in buenos aires (the national agency) i had 10 persons or so
(18:49:12) r0ver: but all the 10 where people who didn't know about plone
(18:49:29) r0ver: so... 10 potential new members of the community/customers whatever you want to focus
(18:49:53) r0ver: NGO could work with the same approach too
(18:50:15) r0ver: you find a NGO or company who works or meets many NGO and try to organize the event with them
(18:50:55) r0ver: NGO aren't to developed here... so, we usually don't pay to much attention to that sector.
(18:51:15) r0ver: but it is different in northen countries
(18:51:53) HammerToe: Also... one thing we sometimes find here in the UK is that there might be loads of Plone users in one sector, but they don't know each other
(18:52:39) r0ver: spring and community events are good to meet them. User groups too.
(18:52:41) HammerToe: there was a conference Oxfam arranged a few years ago for NGOs, and most of the NGOs did not know the others were using Plone too
(18:52:55) r0ver: wow
(18:53:05) r0ver: HammerToe: have you a plone user group
(18:53:09) r0ver: in uk ?
(18:54:07) HammerToe: r0ver, not really
(18:54:22) HammerToe: r0ver, we *had* Zope UK, but we never got around to meeting that often
(18:54:41) HammerToe: we have a local Bristol Plone user group that meets every few months in a pub
(18:55:06) r0ver: that's a good thing that doesn't require to much effort. You setup the mailing list and promote it with a regular basis on events like WPD, free software conventions, NGO conventions, and such places.
(18:55:40) r0ver: awesome, if i'm able to visit bristol i'll atteend one of those meetings :)
(18:57:09) HammerToe: ditto if I ever get to Argentina :)
(18:57:15) r0ver: :)
(18:58:21) r0ver: Ok. I think we should move forward. Do you want to add anything about WPD2008. Do you believe we should continue talking about it, sharing experience, and if so, do you think it has sense to schedulle another meeting just to talk about it ?
(18:59:10) HammerToe: I, personally, probabaly have got enough ideas to work with now.... I can't think of anythign more... but will welcome another chat in the future
(19:00:00) r0ver: It would be nice to meet more people... probably chat is not the best way...
(19:00:03) r0ver: i dunno
(19:01:02) r0ver: So... do you agree using Karl's documment as wpd2008 post morten PR ?
(19:01:23) r0ver: (we would need to ask him to publish in plone.org as pr)
(19:01:33) ree: +1 on my side, nice work
(19:01:48) HammerToe: +1
(19:02:13) r0ver: ok
(19:03:08) r0ver: anyone oppose ?
(19:03:14) francescociriaci: I don't like the name "post mortem" so +1 as long that it's not called that way :-P
(19:03:46) r0ver: francescociriaci: how would you call it ?
(19:04:10) r0ver: probably it is not important to discuss the name
(19:04:19) r0ver: but if you've an idea or suggestion better
(19:04:37) r0ver: Ok
(19:04:42) r0ver: let's move forward
(19:04:43) r0ver: - WPD 2009 global organization
(19:04:53) ***francescociriaci nods
(19:05:22) r0ver: i wrote 3 group of tasks, probably there are more: sponsors, website, communication
(19:06:35) r0ver: in 2008 i tried to look champions for every area
(19:07:18) r0ver: http://plone.org/events/wpd/2008/wpd2008-team
(19:08:08) r0ver: For example, Tim Knapp is interested to continue with sponsorhip
(19:08:19) r0ver: i think he made a good job, considering it was the first time
(19:08:55) r0ver: (i assume that the event's sponsorship makes sense, i never got a comment or suggestion about it so... we assume it's a good idea to continue doing what we did last year)
(19:09:27) r0ver: Gerry Kirk made a great job also, i'm not sure if he is interested to continue this year
(19:09:38) r0ver: but there are many thing to improve
(19:10:05) r0ver: for example, i heard something like python fundation didn't know about WPD and they asked us why we didn't tell about it
(19:10:27) r0ver: and the obvious answer is, because we didn't think about it... so
(19:10:54) r0ver: i think we should invite to support/promote or communicate wpd to other free software foundations
(19:11:09) r0ver: wich we have a relationship
(19:11:20) r0ver: and stuff like that
(19:11:25) r0ver: just to mention communication
(19:12:11) r0ver: any comment about how to deal with tasks and people at global level ?
(19:13:45) r0ver: i think this idea would be to do a list like the one suggested on the notes
(19:13:55) r0ver: and find people interested on moving forward them
(19:14:13) r0ver: it is somehow difficult but i don't find another way
(19:14:31) ree: I am silent because I cannot take any task for WPD in the global organization
(19:15:03) ree: but I think indeed the way is to make a list of tasks, try to ask some people personally, and also ask on some lists if someone is interested
(19:15:26) HammerToe: whilst I would like to, I can't commit either.
(19:16:01) r0ver: good. Thanks.
(19:16:23) HammerToe: I'm trying to push marketing as my role on the PF board, but I don't want to get too involved too deeply in any particlar project or I'll end up committed to them all!
(19:16:51) r0ver: :)
(19:17:22) r0ver: in these cases, probably what you can do is help to find people
(19:17:22) HammerToe: r0ver, but any help you want from the PF board... I know you are an adisory member of the board... but if I can help in any way just ask :)
(19:17:37) HammerToe: right :)
(19:18:01) r0ver: sometimes you meet people who wants to contribute and/or has the skill but it is not familiar or afraid
(19:18:50) r0ver: if you're deeply commited and overloaded i think the best you can do is 'getting more people' (sorry my english is not good enough to write that in a polite way)
(19:20:26) r0ver: Ok. Then, if there no more comments we can continue with wpd 2009 team, and probably with wpd 2009 in general and move to - plone evangelism in general as ree suggested.
(19:20:47) r0ver: it was to continue with wpd2009 next time
(19:21:10) r0ver: anythin to add before we move from wpd2009 ?
(19:21:41) HammerToe: r0ver, I'm not overloaded yet... just wary I might be if I get too involved... but certainly I will be trying to get more people
(19:21:58) r0ver: thks!
(19:22:40) r0ver: Ok
(19:22:50) r0ver: ree: you wanted to talk about - plone evangelism in general
(19:22:55) ree: yes
(19:23:24) ree: shortly, I will announce the creation of the plone-eastern-europe regional mailing list
(19:24:01) r0ver: great!
(19:24:04) r0ver: congratulations
(19:24:10) HammerToe: cool :)
(19:24:15) ree: it will serve for grouping developers and user groups in the eastern-european countries, and the central-asian (ex-soviet-union) countries will also be welcome
(19:24:24) ree: the list has 2 main purposes:
(19:24:49) ree: - to publicize the Budapest conference, and the participation grants
(19:25:50) ree: - on the long term we can use this to organize consortia for EU proposals, since these countries are desired in joint projects and the more countries are the more chance for winning.
(19:26:35) ree: altogether it will boost integration of developers and users from this country to the plone community and global ecosystem.
(19:26:48) ree: /these countries
(19:28:14) ree: We have to make an effort to get a representative from as many countries as possible on the list. Best would be to plone companies and local user group, but if there are no such things in a country, we can also ask for an individual to help our efforts
(19:28:27) ree: so what I would like to ask from all of you?
(19:28:28) ree: :
(19:28:58) ree: if you have contacts in any of these countries please make them aware of the new list (announcement coming soon)
(19:29:07) ree: and ask them to subscribe
(19:29:49) ree: I also think that the list could be used to drive the WPD organiztion in this region, although I am not sure if time is long enough in this year for this
(19:30:18) r0ver: no problem. You should post a news in plone.org and also we can ask to Xavier post the news at Zea Partners.
(19:30:49) ree: but in any case we should coordinate somehow, like WPD organizers - if there are any of these countries - should come to the list, and members on the list should be encouraged to organize a WPD
(19:31:42) r0ver: probably you're in contact with the guys who apply for ploneconf in Praha last year
(19:31:47) ree: r0ver, I will make an announcement on ZEA, and then maybe also on the plone-user list.... yes and on plone.org, a news is also good
(19:32:03) r0ver: nagyon szép
(19:32:39) r0ver: just curious, are you going to use russian ?
(19:32:47) r0ver: as language or english ?
(19:32:47) ree: r0ver, I am not actually in contact with them, but I need to. I have a few contacts already but it would be nice have some starting audience
(19:32:49) ree: :)
(19:32:55) ree: beszélsz magyarul?
(19:33:07) r0ver: igen a little :)
(19:33:15) r0ver: i forgot most of it
(19:33:18) ree: igen, emlékszem :)
(19:33:25) ree: ok let's not annoy the others
(19:33:37) r0ver: Ok.
(19:34:02) r0ver: Ok, if there are no more issues let's close the meeting
(19:34:09) ree: we don't speak russian although I for example was obliged to learn it through all school and university, for 11 years or so.
(19:34:12) r0ver: and hour and a half probably is too much
(19:34:42) ree: but unfortunately it's mostly gone... you know if something is forced on you, there is little enthusiasm :)
(19:34:57) r0ver: yup
(19:35:46) r0ver: Ok. Thank you very much we keep in touch. Feel free to continue the talk in the channel and come whenever you want
(19:35:49) ree: so please help spreading the word if you can :) and thanks in advance
(19:35:55) r0ver: there's usually people here
(19:35:58) r0ver: ree: sure!